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mbacolas

mbacolas

Posts : 135
Join date : 2010-05-25

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PostSubject: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyMon Jul 26, 2010 11:32 pm

I am totally against it. I wont argue that flouride is not good for your teeth becuase there are studies that show it is beneficial, but then again there are studies that show flouride actually causes dental flourosis in children.

However the fact remains that people associate flouride being good for your teeth and thus add it to your water causing million to ingest this hazardous poison into our bodies. There is flouride in the water, soda, juices, foods, gum, pretty much everything made from a flouridated water source. Becuase of this society has been medicating its population and dont even know it. I have even talked to dentists who are against flouridation in water, its a no brainer.

If you have the free time please watch this documentry, it will be a real mind opener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo
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Shynaku
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Shynaku

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptySun Aug 15, 2010 2:48 am

Not to commit the naturalistic fallacy, but our bodies should be used to fluoride in water. If you bother to look up what fluoridation is, you'll see that it's the addition or subtraction of fluoride from our drinking water, because most natural sources have anywhere between some and harmful levels of fluoride. And as for fluorosis, so bloody what? Cavities are a major money eater and health risk — tooth decay can lead to various heart problems — so the slight discoloring of one's teeth is, I see, of little concern (just pay a dentist to whiten your teeth if you're that self-absorbed).

Anyway, fluoride is a harmful substance in large quantities, but we monitor the levels to keep it well below potential thresholds — this being done by either adding a very little amount or subtracting sometimes significant amounts from the natural source.

Don't believe me? Check out what the CDC has to say on the matter.
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mbacolas

mbacolas

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyTue Aug 17, 2010 11:28 am

forget the cdc. IF you want the truth you get independant studies. Thats like saying, well the government doesnt poison our water becuase the government said it doesnt. Duh theyre going to say they dont and that added flouride to the water is good.

You see natural flouride is one thing but added flouride is another. Lets learn for a minute what type of flouride they are adding to the water.

"Fluoride, as such, is never added to the water. Only silicofluorides (a hazardous waste containing many toxic pollutants) are used to artificially fluoridate water, and studies have proven that they do not effectively prevent tooth decay, they only delay it. (See opposition's response to Question 4). Silicofluorides never occur naturally in nature, and they are 85 times more toxic than natural occurring calcium fluoride. Therefore, the effect on the entire body will be different.

This was proven in a study called, "Comparative Toxicity of Fluorine Compounds." After this study was completed, this statement was made: " ... this meant a daily intake of approximately 40 mg/kg of fluorine from sodium fluoride as compared with 3400 mg/kg from calcium fluoride. Therefore, from the standpoint of lethal concentrations and amount of fluorine necessary to cause growth inhibition, wide differences in toxicity of some of the compounds of fluoride were noted." (See 3-1: Industrial and Engineering Chemistry. July 1934, page 797). In other words, industrial waste (sodium fluoride) is 85 times more toxic than natural calcium fluoride. Both of them contain fluoride, but they are totally different compounds. (Also see 3-2).

Calcium is a well-known antidote for fluoride poisoning. When an antidote accompanies a poison, it makes the poison far less toxic to the body. Soft waters to which fluoride is artificially added lack this calcium which is present in most waters that contain natural fluoride.

"The claim that fluoridation is one of 'nature's experiments' is not valid because the salts put into the water supply, sodium fluoride or silicofluorides, are industrial products never found in natural water or in organisms. They are, furthermore, notoriously toxic, sufficiently so to be used as rat poison or insecticide. Calcium fluoride, on the other hand, which is the form commonly found in natural waters, is not toxic enough for such uses." — Dr. C. G. Dobbs, (Ph.D., A.R.C.S.) Bangor, Wales, England."

http://www.fluoridedebate.com/question03.html
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Shynaku
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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyTue Aug 17, 2010 3:56 pm

Fine, let's use third-party sources; but is "fluoridedebate.com" a name expected to be unbiased? Well then, how about the American Medical Association and American Dental Association? They both support water fluoridation, and they are independent groups made of large bodies of trained medical professionals that have no stake in the issue other than looking out for potential health benefits.

Or how about a small handful of peer-reviewed articles:
Mortality in areas containing natural fluoride in their water supplies, taking account of socioenvironmental factors and water hardness.
Pharmacokinetics of ingested fluoride: lack of effect of chemical compound.
Blood lead concentrations in children and method of water fluoridation in the United States, 1988-1994.
The effects of non-fluoridated and fluoridated milk on experimental caries in rats.

In short, the science is on the side that the type of fluoride used in drinking water is as effective at preventing tooth decay as naturally occurring fluoride without any greater risk to health.

Finally, why would the government be trying to poison its people? Water fluoridation isn't even done on the federal level, so it's hard to claim a nation-wide government conspiracy to infect all persons with it. Besides, if they wanted to put something harmful in the water, why wouldn't they just do it without telling anyone? What benefit does the government have in purposely harming its people? I think that at worst the federal suggestion would be through ignorance, and it doesn't even seem like there's any evidence pointing to a mistake being made at all.
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mbacolas

mbacolas

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyFri Sep 17, 2010 2:27 pm

Quote from: Shroom! on Today at 01:52:17 am
Apparently fluoride kills your pineal gland.


Summation - Fluoride & Pineal Gland:

Up until the 1990s, no research had ever been conducted to determine the impact of fluoride on the pineal gland - a small gland located between the two hemispheres of the brain that regulates the production of the hormone melatonin. Melatonin is a hormone that helps regulate the onset of puberty and helps protect the body from cell damage caused by free radicals.

It is now known - thanks to the meticulous research of Dr. Jennifer Luke from the University of Surrey in England - that the pineal gland is the primary target of fluoride accumulation within the body.

The soft tissue of the adult pineal gland contains more fluoride than any other soft tissue in the body - a level of fluoride (~300 ppm) capable of inhibiting enzymes.

The pineal gland also contains hard tissue (hyroxyapatite crystals), and this hard tissue accumulates more fluoride (up to 21,000 ppm) than any other hard tissue in the body (e.g. teeth and bone).

After finding that the pineal gland is a major target for fluoride accumulation in humans, Dr. Luke conducted animal experiments to determine if the accumulated fluoride could impact the functioning of the gland - particulalry the gland's regulation of melatonin.

Luke found that animals treated with fluoride had lower levels of circulating melatonin, as reflected by reduced levels of melatonin metabolites in the animals' urine. This reduced level of circulating melatonin was accompanied - as might be expected - by an earlier onset of puberty in the fluoride-treated female animals.

Luke summarized her human and animal findings as follows:

"In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body. Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty. Whether or not fluoride interferes with pineal function in humans requires further investigation."

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/
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Shynaku
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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyMon Sep 20, 2010 6:42 pm

I decided to read the articles provided in the link, and both I found lacking. First, one of them is in a dissertation for a Ph.D. in philosophy (I had to check and recheck this a few times and I still question whether I'm misreading that). Now, as a philosophy major, I don't see a problem with philosophy, but why this paper that deals with neurochemistry is being submitted for philosophy is beyond me at the moment. The other paper simply says levels, but doesn't indicate why those levels are significant. Here's why this is important: we need oxygen to breath, but almost 80% of the atmosphere is nitrogen; ergo, we are suffocating. Now, this is silly since we are used to a 20% oxygen content, but it highlights that raw numbers cannot be alarming on their own. I'll also simply say that the sample size is depressingly small, and the distribution of the data points in the graph in the article shows this well.

You criticized me for using sources that seem to have obvious bias, but you have not returned the notion by continuing to use websites such as "fluoride alert". I'll start using obviously biased websites as well if you continue on this path. I recommend using Google Scholar or PubMed when looking for peer-reviewed articles.
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mbacolas

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyMon Sep 20, 2010 7:36 pm

why would these people want to demonize flouride IF it is so good for people?
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Shynaku
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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyMon Sep 20, 2010 10:12 pm

Why would these people want to support fluoride IF it is so bad for people?

Why are there so many people who feel differently — sometime vehemently so — on the correct way to mingle government and the market? Why are there people who support/oppose certain policies? We all have different approaches toward looking at the world, and we all have the biases we carry with us. The reason I stress the importance of large, peer-reviewed studies published by reputable journals is because they are the best source we have for information that is unbiased. I still try to pick apart articles if I find fault — they're too small to be conclusive, the results don't lead to the conclusion, etc. — but they are much better sources to a website which is devoted to the "bad" things about fluoridation.
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mbacolas

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 1:26 am

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Shynaku
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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 2:33 pm

The main claims in that video were: 1) fluoride in high doses is bad, and 2) current fluoridation levels are linked to osteosarcoma. My response to 1: I have never denied that fluoride in high doses is bad; however, you have never demonstrated that the current levels of fluoridation are enough to cause the ill effects. As for 2: CDC says otherwise. I already know you're going to respond by saying, "CDC = biased", but until you provide sources that are non-biased, I see no reason for not using a large body of medical practitioners who regularly update the current collective knowledge in order to provide the best medical advice through the use of peer-reviewed papers and meta-analyses. If you doubt the CDC, find error with their sources they provide; I've done this with your evidence, so I would like to have the same respect done to me.

I will not respond to any more statements made by you until you can at least humor me with a response to the CDC's analysis. It happened in the 9/11 thread, and it's happening again: you will not openly examine negative evidence to your claim.
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NovaBlaze

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PostSubject: Re: Water Flouridation   Water Flouridation EmptySun Oct 17, 2010 11:28 am

Dear Lord, you two like your debates Shocked
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